Interview with Dr. Catherine Gueguen – Part I
Catherine Gueguen, pediatrician, became known to the general public thanks to two reference works published by Editions Robert Laffont in French: “For a happy childhood – Rethinking education in the light of affective neuroscience” and “Living happily with your child” . She recently co-authored in French “Developing psychosocial skills at school. Let’s dare non-violent Communication” (Edition Canopé, national education, 2023).
Her interventions help us to better understand how the child perceives the world and “the other”, how the child feels our words or our attitudes towards him/her and how to communicate with him/her?
We wanted to meet her to benefit from her insights.
Doctor Gueguen, you have participated to making the contribution of emotional and social neuroscience accessible to parents. What do they tell us about the brain and behavior of young children?
Don’t put pressure on yourself, don’t blame yourself!
First of all, I would like to say to parents and childcare professionals: “Don’t put pressure on yourself, don’t blame yourself! ” Why? Because all these discoveries about the development of children’s brains are extremely recent, and they are a real educational revolution.
For centuries, and even now throughout the planet, the vast majority of adults – whatever the culture, whatever the religion – have believed in good faith that it is necessary to punish children. It was “necessary”to train them, to humiliate them so that they behave well and do well at school. So for many adults, it is very complicated because this scientific research shows that, on the contrary, we should be empathetic if we want children to develop well. We should support children, encourage them instead of humiliating them, punishing them and devaluing them. And of course, adults are not going to change their attitude towards children with the wave of a magic wand. This path will not happen overnight.
Making mistakes is okay
I think everyone knows that education is extraordinarily complex and difficult. And what’s more, all adults make mistakes, whether they are parents or professionals. And making mistakes is okay. All humans make mistakes, and perhaps especially in the educational field, because it is extremely complex. One day or another, all parents, and even professionals, lose patience, get angry, shout or want to give up, become discouraged. They say words, and they make actions that they later regret, and sometimes even immediately. But admitting when you’re wrong and apologizing is very educational for children! This teaches them that adults make mistakes like them, and that we learn from our mistakes. The main thing is to want to improve, to progress, and not to stay alone when you feel overwhelmed. What I am saying here for parents and professionals is very, very important.
What neuroscience researches tell us
So what are these very recent researches, which therefore dates from the very end of the 20th century and beginning of the twenty-first century? They show us that a large part of the brain is devoted to emotions and relationships. This means that our emotions and our relationships are essential to us, and we all know this deep within us. And this affective and social neuroscience gives us a new vision of the child, which implies, in my opinion, that all adults should be supported in this new way of guiding and raising children. They tell us that the child’s brain is much more immature, vulnerable and malleable than anything previously thought. Human beings are born with the capacity to be empathetic and altruistic. Small children are not naughty, but they cannot cope with their emotions, their impulses, because their brain is immature.
They also tell us that the quality of the relationship with children, in particular empathy, support, encouragement, are essential for the development of their brain, and that this has nothing to do with laxity. Then, they tell us the crucial importance of the role of emotions in self-knowledge, in moral reflection, in learning. Emotional and social skills enable the child’s optimal development, social and intellectual development. And finally they tell us that verbal and physical humiliation hinders the development of the child’s brain, and causes a lot, a lot of behavioral problems.
Precisely, this is linked to the 2nd question that I want to ask you. You regularly warn against the effects of punishment and criticism. You just mentioned it, but you haven’t yet mentioned the isolation of children. What are the risks for children when we talk about isolation?
Appeasing does not mean giving in
I will still detail what I said, because I said it very schematically. Researchers therefore tell us that the child’s brain is extremely immature, fragile and malleable and that the small child, up to 5 or 6 years old, is not capricious, not tyrannical, not hellish, and not bad. Children just have a very immature brain that doesn’t allow them to deal with their emotions. This explains their many emotional storms, that is to say their tears, their anger, their panics. And when their basic needs are not met – which can happen very often, and especially when they are with other children – well, their brain goes into overdrive: and then they can hit, bite, roll on the floor, and throw away their toys.
We now know that when children are overwhelmed by their emotions, they are not able to calm down on their own. That’s very, very important, and they absolutely need an empathetic adult, who understands their emotions, their needs, and who soothes them and helps them express their emotions. This is what allows the maturation of their brain.
On the contrary, when children has these emotional storms, and we leave them alone, they will secrete too much cortisol, which is very harmful for the development of their brain. Of course appeasing them doesn’t mean giving in. If children throw a tantrum because they want candy, or they want this or that, and the adult considers that it is not justified: we are not going to give in, but we are going to calm their emotional storm.
So the attitude to adopt is completely counterintuitive, because always, when faced with children who are having an emotional storm, I see all the parents – while believing they are doing the right thing – who get angry, get upset and very often tell them shouting “That’s not good! You are not nice ! You are bad !” And adults and professionals really need to stop saying sentences of this type, and then stop punishing children more or less violently.
When children are in distress, they have an immense need to be secure
I will now answer your question: this humiliation and isolation of children is part of emotional abuse. This is also what is mentioned in the International Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). All these humiliations, when they are frequent, intense, daily, deeply damage the brain and can lead to many behavioral disorders. Aggression, depression (even if it concerns children), anxiety, then later, delinquency, drug and alcohol addiction, suicide attempts, etc. Most of the studies come from Harvard, and they are extremely well documented. So we know exactly what it does to which part of the brain. That being said, there is obviously no question of being lax. No, adults must provide benchmarks, they must provide a framework, but they must do so with empathy.
This means they understand their child’s emotions and needs. And when they see that children are not behaving appropriately, he expresses his/her disagreement, of course, without making big speeches. Because I think you know that little ones don’t listen to big speeches, and neither do teenagers. And always, we must restore confidence in the child. So we say, “No, that doesn’t suit me, I don’t agree when I hear you say this, when I see you do that. But as you grow up you will learn to do things differently and you can do things differently. » but the adult is not going to criticize children. He’s not going to reproach them by saying “You’re not nice, that’s not right.”
These are the kinds of sentences that I heard daily in my consultation office. “You’re selfish, lazy, etc…”. Because these words will devalue children who will lose self-confidence, and they will not progress. So children has an immense need to be secure, reassured when they are in distress. It is because they are extremely fragile, immature and dependent on the attitude of adults.
To follow up on the first part of your interview, and because all parents face crisis situations with a child in their daily life. could you give us a concrete example… in a supermarket or even at home, a concrete example of an unacceptable reaction for parents, and an example of reframing – knowing of course that there are no magic recipes
Children cannot calm down alone
For example, if a child is rolling on the floor, screaming and screaming because he/she wants more chocolate, and the adult thinks, “No, that’s enough. », the adult will talk to the child first about their emotions. That is to say, he/she will be empathetic “Yes, I understand that you are angry, because you want more chocolate. Me, I do not want. Because if you eat too much of it, you’ll get a stomach ache.” And here we have to talk about the expected behavior. “You see, as you grow up, when you know how to speak better, you’ll say to me, ‘You know, I wish I had more chocolate. » instead of rolling on the floor, screaming and yelling”. It is very, very important to tell a child what the expected behavior is. Then we will soothe the child who is in all his states: we will cuddle him/her.
So that doesn’t mean we’re going to give him/her chocolate, but we’re going to soothe him/her. And that is not laxity at all: we are not going to give in to the child, but we are going to calm down because when children has emotional storms, they do not, like us, have a mature prefrontal brain which allows them to step back from their emotions and calm down alone. Small children cannot soothe themselves alone, this is what adults must understand with small children: so we soothe them so that they have less cortisol in their body because it is very harmful for their brain , it is very harmful when it happens repeatedly because children can have seizures several times a day.
This interview is in 3 parts.