Interview with Sylvie Rayna, author of the book “Babies in museums”

Hello, Dr Sylvie Rayna

You are a researcher in educational science, associated with the EXPERICE laboratory at Sorbonne Paris Nord University. As an early childhood education psychologist, you have published many books on early childhood. Policies, educational and cultural practices and, of course, the development of the youngest children.

Whatever the season, visiting a museum is always a good idea. So today I would like to interview you about your book “Les Bébés aux musées, pourquoi, comment?” (Babies in museums, why, how?) published on 17 November 2022 by éditions “érès”. This book is the first to focus on the subject of toddlers in museums.

First of all, to use the title of your book, let’s start with the question of why. Why did you choose this subject?

Precisely because we were short of publications on the subject, although experiments were being developed here and there. I wanted to take stock of the situation, without trying to draw up a catalogue of initiatives, but rather to get to the heart of some of the experiments and make them more visible. Their construction, the collaborations, the experiences of children and adults during sensitive encounters, the effects on the practices of museums, families and early childhood structures.

The aim is to encourage other initiatives, to inspire people to want more, and to share successful approaches. Because too many families do not feel that they have a legitimate place in museums (cultural inequalities are on the increase), while museums, early childhood centres and families are all enriched by them. Numerous publications (published by Éditions Érès) document other initiatives to awaken cultural awareness. Inter-ministerial policies support reading, music, performing arts, and other activities aimed at the very young. This book opens up the new world of museums, and a second opus featuring other French and Italian experiences will be published next year.

How did you go about it? How did you go about identifying and analysing what happens when children enter museums?

Well, by asking the museum teams and early childhood centres that I had previously invited to speak at various study days. For example, Nathalie Gossiaux or Fanny Lejay from the Picasso Museum in Antibes and the Bonnard Museum in Le Cannet, or the museum and early childhood centre pairings: Isabelle Facoltoso and Marion Bouteiller for Montpellier and the Fabre Museum, or Marlène Delmas and Floriane Berdah for Cagnes-sur-Mer and its 2 museums. Not forgetting centres dedicated to early childhood, such as the mille formes art centre (0-6 years) in Clermont-Ferrand and the Lab “de la cité des bébés” (0-2 years) at the “Cité des sciences et de l’industrie” in Paris.

And by asking them to develop their analyses with regard to the objectives of the book I have just mentioned. I have used the same approach in the second book (to be published), featuring examples such as Bordeaux’s early childhood experience with five museums, Douai’s collaboration with the “Musée de La Chartreuse,” initiatives from early childhood structures in Pistoia (Tuscany) and Cap d’Ail, and contributions from artists in Carros, Beauvais, and Grasse. The cross-fertilisation of the views of experts in early childhood, museums and the arts provides a wealth of analysis, speaking to all readers, parents, early childhood and cultural professionals, students and trainers.

What problems need to be solved, and how? And what are the positive impacts for children?

Accessibility to all from the earliest age is the challenge. All children have the same cultural rights. There’s still a long way to go! It has become a question of “cultural health”, according to Sophie Marinopoulos’ report. Many museums want to be more inclusive and open up more, but all they have experience of is welcoming “schoolchildren”, which in no way applies to the youngest visitors. Museum staff, early childhood educators, and artists still have much to invent in collaboration with one another. Their creativity is evident in the experiments presented in this book and the next. It gives us a basis for daring elsewhere!

As far as the babies are concerned, they are all ready for the adventure, they all show great interest in aesthetics, they love beauty, they are happy to marvel, to play and to create in museums, in a calm, soothing atmosphere, under the gaze of adults who are available and themselves moved, far from the noise outside … from the temptation of screens!!!! Young children often show themselves in a new light in these places that are new to them, and impress their carers, including children with severe disabilities. When museums, early childhood centers, and families repeatedly share these bubbles of well-being, they create a virtuous circle of adventures that leads to new experiences and has a knock-on effect.

What kind of approach to young children is offered by museums today? And by what type of museum?

There’s no particular type of museum: fine art museums, contemporary art museums, decorative arts museums, natural science museums, perfume museums and many others. While nursery assistants can travel by their own means, as for any other outing, for crèches you have to rely on the participation of parents, which is a good thing in terms of the objective: that all families then dare to return.

Are there any museums that you would particularly recommend?

No. They all have their own special features and assets. The ones I go back to regularly are a matter of personal taste, but I’m a curious person and I discover new ones every week as I travel around. Most of them are pure marvels where, all too often, I find myself alone in the morning in front of so much beauty! There really is plenty of room for young and old alike!

Where the link between museums and early childhood does not yet exist, my advice would be for one or the other to take the first step towards the other. And of course, at municipal level, the culture and early childhood departments should work hand in hand on this project (and others) to support local initiatives and encourage them.

In which countries are we witnessing this approach? And which countries are leading the way?

The United States has a long tradition of opening museums to children. Many other countries are now working with babies, including Scandinavia, Belgium, Australia and Brazil. In the book, Yannick Le Pape, a researcher at the Musée d’Orsay, offers an international overview (completed in the second volume).

Finally, what advice do you have to encourage parents who are still hesitating about taking their little ones on a museum trip?

Don’t hesitate! Go and see what you like, your little ones will sense it and guide you. That’s what I often observe myself. Go to the museum WITH the little ones and not for them, share your pleasures, your discoveries and theirs! Marvel together!

And if you have any other museums offering activities for toddlers, I’d love to hear from you! My email address: srayna@wanadoo.fr

Thank you Sylvie Rayna!